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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 5, 2020 23:57:12 GMT -5
I am actually not trolling at all, and I was legitimately curious what your answer would be. That is tremendously hard to believe based on your previous posts. But in the interest of moving forward I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and offer you an answer.... My answer is, I don’t have the answers. I don’t have the answers for me, so I certainly don’t have them for you or anyone else. There is no roadmap for being better and doing better. That’s going to be different for everyone. The idea is to commit to keep on asking ourselves the questions and to keep on trying to find the answers. We might fail. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. If your answer is that you thought about it and you can’t do or be any better, then i would suggest that you might not be asking the right questions. Figuring out the questions is hard, asking ourselves those questions can be even harder, and it can be extremely personal and difficult to come up with answers. I think thats one of the reasons why a generation on from Rodney King and the LA riots, America is still struggling to ask the right questions, so it’s no wonder we don’t have all the answers. This is not “word salad” and it’s not coming from a place of hate or anger. It’s actually the opposite of that. So there’s your answer. You asked for it, and there it is. I hope it’s all you wanted it to be. It’s the best I can do. Bash away. That said, your last 2 posts really reflect the hate and anger from the left that I alluded to last night. Please explain this. There is no hate or anger behind my posts. I don’t know how to convince you of that. The people here that know me, know that I am not a hateful or angry person. I go back and read those last two posts you’re referencing and I don’t the see hate or anger that you apparently see. Maybe I’m just blind to it, I don’t know. So please explain and help me understand why you perceive hate and anger from those last two posts. Also, I’m still wondering how you define “liberal”? I asked this before and you didn’t answer. I asked because you labeled me a liberal. I’ve never thought of myself as a liberal, at least not in the political sense. My voting record certainly isn’t a liberal one. So how do you define liberal? Help me understand your perspective. “It's trully sad to see the hate and vitriol from liberals. It's a you are with us or against us philosophy...Zen Master and GMs posts really exemplify this dynamic” Hate and vitriol and with us or against us are not liberal traits, at least not as I understand the textbook definition of liberal. They are also not conservative traits. Yet I see plenty of hate and vitriol and with us or against us coming from both the extreme right and the extreme left in today’s political landscape. I feel it being directed at me in this thread. I’m trying really hard not to direct it at you or anyone else. But I’m not perfect and it’s easy to get defensive and not back down. I’ll own that. And if that comes across as hate and vitriol, I’ll try to be better. But it would be nice to have a little less of it directed my way as well. This forum used to have a strong sense of camaraderie. That included lots of busting chops about sports and skiing and fun stuff like that. I’ve made some good friends, and acquired a whole new level of love and respect for SR the resort (and for a born and bred sugarloafer that is no small feat). We’ve also raised a lot of money together for several worthy causes. Something has changed recently, and not in a good way. Hopefully we can get back there at some point and leave the acrimony behind. I’ll commit to trying, will you? Will WIH? Anyone else? Maybe we should just hit delete on this thread and start over by agreeing to stay away from politics. How about a cooking thread to help fill the skiing gap instead? We can share recipes that we have discovered during quarantine, may even a forum cookbook that could be sold to raise money for MASR could come out of it. Ok maybe not, but this is getting old.
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 6, 2020 9:46:14 GMT -5
A couple of new developments that do a way better job of making my point thaN I ever could. First, Roger Goodell made a remarkable statement. I haven’t been a Roger Goodell fan but I give him kudos for this: Second, Drew Brees was called out by Trump who said he should not have have apologized and that we should never kneel. The response from Brees is way better answer than mine. I don’t think he had or has a racist bone in his body, and as MB said he does amazing good in his community and beyond, but he still wants to find ways to do better and be better. http://instagram.com/p/CBE4y_9Hj2S
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Post by Machski on Jun 6, 2020 9:46:30 GMT -5
Again, he came towards the line at the start of the video. We are missing context from even 5 seconds earlier. They didn't need to push the guy and certainly should have stopped to assist, especially if bleeding post push from his ears. Again, this is a tense time. I have no idea how things have been going in Buffalo, how many hours on duty in the past week the officiers have put in, how many tense situations they have dealt with. Have you? And if you were there MB, would you in your right mind have allowed your elderly father to approach that Police line? I think not, I think THAT is how you would have protected your father. So, I will again back my position. If you decide to approach a Police line in a tense situation, that is your decision and you are at least partly responsible for the consequences of your actions. Tired of everything is someone else's fault in this country. You’re splitting hairs. The police are not approaching a foreign enemy line. This is fucking Buffalo on a nice sunny day, in America. And a skinny old guy feels like me - they’re a bunch of over-militarized people that have trained for battle - not protesting people. Who are they “protecting”? They had more gear than guys landing at D-Day. I am sick and tired of it. That incident was awful and shouldn’t have happened, period. Not really, a 5 second clip of the incident doesn't give one context, just a moment in time. The one thing the video available does detail that is complete BS is the line marching on and the officer wanting to help being told to leave him and get back in line. That part is BS and should be diciplined for. The actual confrontation and push, I would need more context of how it came about before I were to pass judgement. And I have no idea how things in "fucking Buffalo" (Nice language BTW RA, might YOU be adding fuel to the rage with that type??!!) have been over the last week, been trying to pay attention to Columbus, OH personally as I have to travel there next week. Do you have any idea how things in Buffalo have been over the past week? If not, you are not fully at liberty to declare what is and isn't right with regards to how the Police are handling that particular situation and neither am I. So what I am saying is, without more context, you cannot condemn even an action by Police based on a 5 second video clip. I can't say if they were right or wrong, but the 5 second "ends" cannot determine the validity of the means or guilt.
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Post by CartMan on Jun 6, 2020 9:56:56 GMT -5
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Post by Machski on Jun 6, 2020 9:58:01 GMT -5
A couple of new developments that do a way better job of making my point thaN I ever could. First, Roger Goodell made a remarkable statement. I haven’t been a Roger Goodell fan but I give him kudos for this: Second, Drew Brees was called out by Trump who said he should not have have apologized and that we should never kneel. The response from Brees is way better answer than mine. I don’t think he had or has a racist bone in his body, and as MB said he does amazing good in his community and beyond, but he still wants to find ways to do better and be better. http://instagr.am/p/CBE4y_9Hj2S Something I just thought of witht he NFL and kneeling. So the players made their protests during the playing of the anthem (I will grant they may protest all they want, how they want), outside of the actual gametime they get paid to play. Thinking now, I'm a bit surprised Kap didn't get the team to take a knee before opening kickoff for like 10-15 seconds in the 9ers were the kicking team. That would have removed the Flag/Anthem issue, the cameras would have been on them for sure and I think the 11 players on the field and yhe sideline doing that would have been a more impressive sight. Even more so had the opposing team followed or done the same. Just a thought, would have been impactful and yet separated any connection to the flag and veteran/military honors connection.
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Post by riverskier on Jun 6, 2020 10:43:08 GMT -5
A couple of new developments that do a way better job of making my point thaN I ever could. First, Roger Goodell made a remarkable statement. I haven’t been a Roger Goodell fan but I give him kudos for this: Second, Drew Brees was called out by Trump who said he should not have have apologized and that we should never kneel. The response from Brees is way better answer than mine. I don’t think he had or has a racist bone in his body, and as MB said he does amazing good in his community and beyond, but he still wants to find ways to do better and be better. http://instagr.am/p/CBE4y_9Hj2S Something I just thought of witht he NFL and kneeling. So the players made their protests during the playing of the anthem (I will grant they may protest all they want, how they want), outside of the actual gametime they get paid to play. Thinking now, I'm a bit surprised Kap didn't get the team to take a knee before opening kickoff for like 10-15 seconds in the 9ers were the kicking team. That would have removed the Flag/Anthem issue, the cameras would have been on them for sure and I think the 11 players on the field and yhe sideline doing that would have been a more impressive sight. Even more so had the opposing team followed or done the same. Just a thought, would have been impactful and yet separated any connection to the flag and veteran/military honors connection. Excellent suggestion, and there are an infinite number of other ways to protest/advocate change that dont arguably disrespect the flag/military. People are certainly entitled to protest however way they wish, but it seems like there are more productive ways than kneeling. I am confident Drew Brees absolutely stands by his initial comments, and there is nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with kneeling. Given the current political climate, I think he was essentially forced to apologize, or face continued ridicule from his teammates, and potentially tarnish his reputation for ever.
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Post by what is hip ? on Jun 6, 2020 11:49:11 GMT -5
I am actually not trolling at all, and I was legitimately curious what your answer would be. That is tremendously hard to believe based on your previous posts. But in the interest of moving forward I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and offer you an answer.... My answer is, I don’t have the answers. I don’t have the answers for me, so I certainly don’t have them for you or anyone else. There is no roadmap for being better and doing better. That’s going to be different for everyone. The idea is to commit to keep on asking ourselves the questions and to keep on trying to find the answers. We might fail. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. If your answer is that you thought about it and you can’t do or be any better, then i would suggest that you might not be asking the right questions. Figuring out the questions is hard, asking ourselves those questions can be even harder, and it can be extremely personal and difficult to come up with answers. I think thats one of the reasons why a generation on from Rodney King and the LA riots, America is still struggling to ask the right questions, so it’s no wonder we don’t have all the answers. This is not “word salad” and it’s not coming from a place of hate or anger. It’s actually the opposite of that. So there’s your answer. You asked for it, and there it is. I hope it’s all you wanted it to be. It’s the best I can do. Bash away. That said, your last 2 posts really reflect the hate and anger from the left that I alluded to last night. Please explain this. There is no hate or anger behind my posts. I don’t know how to convince you of that. The people here that know me, know that I am not a hateful or angry person. I go back and read those last two posts you’re referencing and I don’t the see hate or anger that you apparently see. Maybe I’m just blind to it, I don’t know. So please explain and help me understand why you perceive hate and anger from those last two posts. Also, I’m still wondering how you define “liberal”? I asked this before and you didn’t answer. I asked because you labeled me a liberal. I’ve never thought of myself as a liberal, at least not in the political sense. My voting record certainly isn’t a liberal one. So how do you define liberal? Help me understand your perspective. “It's trully sad to see the hate and vitriol from liberals. It's a you are with us or against us philosophy...Zen Master and GMs posts really exemplify this dynamic” Hate and vitriol and with us or against us are not liberal traits, at least not as I understand the textbook definition of liberal. They are also not conservative traits. Yet I see plenty of hate and vitriol and with us or against us coming from both the extreme right and the extreme left in today’s political landscape. I feel it being directed at me in this thread. I’m trying really hard not to direct it at you or anyone else. But I’m not perfect and it’s easy to get defensive and not back down. I’ll own that. And if that comes across as hate and vitriol, I’ll try to be better. But it would be nice to have a little less of it directed my way as well. This forum used to have a strong sense of camaraderie. That included lots of busting chops about sports and skiing and fun stuff like that. I’ve made some good friends, and acquired a whole new level of love and respect for SR the resort (and for a born and bred sugarloafer that is no small feat). We’ve also raised a lot of money together for several worthy causes. Something has changed recently, and not in a good way. Hopefully we can get back there at some point and leave the acrimony behind. I’ll commit to trying, will you? Will WIH? Anyone else? This is so full of shit. You participate and post in here way more then anyone else. Maybe try looking in the mirror before you start using "we" and "all of us"
Maybe we should just hit delete on this thread and start over by agreeing to stay away from politics. How about a cooking thread to help fill the skiing gap instead? We can share recipes that we have discovered during quarantine, may even a forum cookbook that could be sold to raise money for MASR could come out of it. Ok maybe not, but this is getting old. This is incredible. I like the part about suggesting the thread be deleted,,,, followed by two more posts from you. And your calling the people that call out your BS extreme? "I feel it being directed at me in this thread" Wow.
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Post by oldtimer on Jun 6, 2020 12:05:21 GMT -5
How about that! Drew Brees making the same point I made a few days ago.
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 6, 2020 12:09:26 GMT -5
That is tremendously hard to believe based on your previous posts. But in the interest of moving forward I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and offer you an answer.... My answer is, I don’t have the answers. I don’t have the answers for me, so I certainly don’t have them for you or anyone else. There is no roadmap for being better and doing better. That’s going to be different for everyone. The idea is to commit to keep on asking ourselves the questions and to keep on trying to find the answers. We might fail. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. If your answer is that you thought about it and you can’t do or be any better, then i would suggest that you might not be asking the right questions. Figuring out the questions is hard, asking ourselves those questions can be even harder, and it can be extremely personal and difficult to come up with answers. I think thats one of the reasons why a generation on from Rodney King and the LA riots, America is still struggling to ask the right questions, so it’s no wonder we don’t have all the answers. This is not “word salad” and it’s not coming from a place of hate or anger. It’s actually the opposite of that. So there’s your answer. You asked for it, and there it is. I hope it’s all you wanted it to be. It’s the best I can do. Bash away. Please explain this. There is no hate or anger behind my posts. I don’t know how to convince you of that. The people here that know me, know that I am not a hateful or angry person. I go back and read those last two posts you’re referencing and I don’t the see hate or anger that you apparently see. Maybe I’m just blind to it, I don’t know. So please explain and help me understand why you perceive hate and anger from those last two posts. Also, I’m still wondering how you define “liberal”? I asked this before and you didn’t answer. I asked because you labeled me a liberal. I’ve never thought of myself as a liberal, at least not in the political sense. My voting record certainly isn’t a liberal one. So how do you define liberal? Help me understand your perspective. “It's trully sad to see the hate and vitriol from liberals. It's a you are with us or against us philosophy...Zen Master and GMs posts really exemplify this dynamic” Hate and vitriol and with us or against us are not liberal traits, at least not as I understand the textbook definition of liberal. They are also not conservative traits. Yet I see plenty of hate and vitriol and with us or against us coming from both the extreme right and the extreme left in today’s political landscape. I feel it being directed at me in this thread. I’m trying really hard not to direct it at you or anyone else. But I’m not perfect and it’s easy to get defensive and not back down. I’ll own that. And if that comes across as hate and vitriol, I’ll try to be better. But it would be nice to have a little less of it directed my way as well. This forum used to have a strong sense of camaraderie. That included lots of busting chops about sports and skiing and fun stuff like that. I’ve made some good friends, and acquired a whole new level of love and respect for SR the resort (and for a born and bred sugarloafer that is no small feat). We’ve also raised a lot of money together for several worthy causes. Something has changed recently, and not in a good way. Hopefully we can get back there at some point and leave the acrimony behind. I’ll commit to trying, will you? Will WIH? Anyone else? This is so full of shit. You participate and post in here way more then anyone else. Maybe try looking in the mirror before you start using "we" and "all of us"
Maybe we should just hit delete on this thread and start over by agreeing to stay away from politics. How about a cooking thread to help fill the skiing gap instead? We can share recipes that we have discovered during quarantine, may even a forum cookbook that could be sold to raise money for MASR could come out of it. Ok maybe not, but this is getting old. This is incredible. I like the part about suggesting the thread be deleted,,,, followed by two more posts from you. And your calling the people that call out your BS extreme? "I feel it being directed at me in this thread" Wow. Love you too. Hope you can find peace.
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Post by what is hip ? on Jun 6, 2020 12:23:38 GMT -5
How about that! Drew Brees making the same point I made a few days ago. He's now on his 3rd apology. His 1st two apologies were not acceptable to the mob.
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 6, 2020 12:38:31 GMT -5
How about that! Drew Brees making the same point I made a few days ago. He's now on his 3rd apology. His 1st two apologies were not acceptable to the mob. But do you now understand the point being made?
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 6, 2020 12:58:22 GMT -5
I am confident Drew Brees absolutely stands by his initial comments, and there is nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with kneeling. Given the current political climate, I think he was essentially forced to apologize, or face continued ridicule from his teammates, and potentially tarnish his reputation for ever. You may be right. I’m just as confident that he stands by the words he has spoken and written since. The two are not necessarily mutually exclude. I also don’t think he was forced to do anything. He could have chosen not to apologize and stayed silent or made some the same arguements being made here, and he would have had president of the United States and all the power and reach that he wields backing him up, along with many other people I’m sure. For some of those same people and probably many others, his reputation has been tarnished by his apology. So either way, his reputation was going to take a hit. And so it would seem he listened to the reactions and I’m sure spoke to people around him and made the decision that works for him. I think he has showed considerable emotional intelligence.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 13:14:02 GMT -5
He's now on his 3rd apology. His 1st two apologies were not acceptable to the mob. But do you now understand the point being made? No. I've listened to his original remarks and can't figure out what he's apologizing for. He was clearly pressured into apologizing, which in and of itself is pretty disturbing. We may never see him on Ellen again.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 13:19:16 GMT -5
That is tremendously hard to believe based on your previous posts. But in the interest of moving forward I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and offer you an answer.... My answer is, I don’t have the answers. I don’t have the answers for me, so I certainly don’t have them for you or anyone else. There is no roadmap for being better and doing better. That’s going to be different for everyone. The idea is to commit to keep on asking ourselves the questions and to keep on trying to find the answers. We might fail. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. If your answer is that you thought about it and you can’t do or be any better, then i would suggest that you might not be asking the right questions. Figuring out the questions is hard, asking ourselves those questions can be even harder, and it can be extremely personal and difficult to come up with answers. I think thats one of the reasons why a generation on from Rodney King and the LA riots, America is still struggling to ask the right questions, so it’s no wonder we don’t have all the answers. This is not “word salad” and it’s not coming from a place of hate or anger. It’s actually the opposite of that. So there’s your answer. You asked for it, and there it is. I hope it’s all you wanted it to be. It’s the best I can do. Bash away. Please explain this. There is no hate or anger behind my posts. I don’t know how to convince you of that. The people here that know me, know that I am not a hateful or angry person. I go back and read those last two posts you’re referencing and I don’t the see hate or anger that you apparently see. Maybe I’m just blind to it, I don’t know. So please explain and help me understand why you perceive hate and anger from those last two posts. Also, I’m still wondering how you define “liberal”? I asked this before and you didn’t answer. I asked because you labeled me a liberal. I’ve never thought of myself as a liberal, at least not in the political sense. My voting record certainly isn’t a liberal one. So how do you define liberal? Help me understand your perspective. “It's trully sad to see the hate and vitriol from liberals. It's a you are with us or against us philosophy...Zen Master and GMs posts really exemplify this dynamic” Hate and vitriol and with us or against us are not liberal traits, at least not as I understand the textbook definition of liberal. They are also not conservative traits. Yet I see plenty of hate and vitriol and with us or against us coming from both the extreme right and the extreme left in today’s political landscape. I feel it being directed at me in this thread. I’m trying really hard not to direct it at you or anyone else. But I’m not perfect and it’s easy to get defensive and not back down. I’ll own that. And if that comes across as hate and vitriol, I’ll try to be better. But it would be nice to have a little less of it directed my way as well. This forum used to have a strong sense of camaraderie. That included lots of busting chops about sports and skiing and fun stuff like that. I’ve made some good friends, and acquired a whole new level of love and respect for SR the resort (and for a born and bred sugarloafer that is no small feat). We’ve also raised a lot of money together for several worthy causes. Something has changed recently, and not in a good way. Hopefully we can get back there at some point and leave the acrimony behind. I’ll commit to trying, will you? Will WIH? Anyone else? This is so full of shit. You participate and post in here way more then anyone else. Maybe try looking in the mirror before you start using "we" and "all of us"
Maybe we should just hit delete on this thread and start over by agreeing to stay away from politics. How about a cooking thread to help fill the skiing gap instead? We can share recipes that we have discovered during quarantine, may even a forum cookbook that could be sold to raise money for MASR could come out of it. Ok maybe not, but this is getting old. This is incredible. I like the part about suggesting the thread be deleted,,,, followed by two more posts from you. And your calling the people that call out your BS extreme? "I feel it being directed at me in this thread" Wow. Watch it....he'll go whining to Machski and you'll get a written warning.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 13:35:41 GMT -5
I am actually not trolling at all, and I was legitimately curious what your answer would be. That is tremendously hard to believe based on your previous posts. But in the interest of moving forward I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and offer you an answer.... My answer is, I don’t have the answers. I don’t have the answers for me, so I certainly don’t have them for you or anyone else. There is no roadmap for being better and doing better. That’s going to be different for everyone. The idea is to commit to keep on asking ourselves the questions and to keep on trying to find the answers. We might fail. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. If your answer is that you thought about it and you can’t do or be any better, then i would suggest that you might not be asking the right questions. Figuring out the questions is hard, asking ourselves those questions can be even harder, and it can be extremely personal and difficult to come up with answers. I think thats one of the reasons why a generation on from Rodney King and the LA riots, America is still struggling to ask the right questions, so it’s no wonder we don’t have all the answers. This is not “word salad” and it’s not coming from a place of hate or anger. It’s actually the opposite of that. So there’s your answer. You asked for it, and there it is. I hope it’s all you wanted it to be. It’s the best I can do. Bash away. That said, your last 2 posts really reflect the hate and anger from the left that I alluded to last night. Please explain this. There is no hate or anger behind my posts. I don’t know how to convince you of that. The people here that know me, know that I am not a hateful or angry person. I go back and read those last two posts you’re referencing and I don’t the see hate or anger that you apparently see. Maybe I’m just blind to it, I don’t know. So please explain and help me understand why you perceive hate and anger from those last two posts. Also, I’m still wondering how you define “liberal”? I asked this before and you didn’t answer. I asked because you labeled me a liberal. I’ve never thought of myself as a liberal, at least not in the political sense. My voting record certainly isn’t a liberal one. So how do you define liberal? Help me understand your perspective. “It's trully sad to see the hate and vitriol from liberals. It's a you are with us or against us philosophy...Zen Master and GMs posts really exemplify this dynamic” Hate and vitriol and with us or against us are not liberal traits, at least not as I understand the textbook definition of liberal. They are also not conservative traits. Yet I see plenty of hate and vitriol and with us or against us coming from both the extreme right and the extreme left in today’s political landscape. I feel it being directed at me in this thread. I’m trying really hard not to direct it at you or anyone else. But I’m not perfect and it’s easy to get defensive and not back down. I’ll own that. And if that comes across as hate and vitriol, I’ll try to be better. But it would be nice to have a little less of it directed my way as well. This forum used to have a strong sense of camaraderie. That included lots of busting chops about sports and skiing and fun stuff like that. I’ve made some good friends, and acquired a whole new level of love and respect for SR the resort (and for a born and bred sugarloafer that is no small feat). We’ve also raised a lot of money together for several worthy causes. Something has changed recently, and not in a good way. Hopefully we can get back there at some point and leave the acrimony behind. I’ll commit to trying, will you? Will WIH? Anyone else? Maybe we should just hit delete on this thread and start over by agreeing to stay away from politics. How about a cooking thread to help fill the skiing gap instead? We can share recipes that we have discovered during quarantine, may even a forum cookbook that could be sold to raise money for MASR could come out of it. Ok maybe not, but this is getting old. Look, your original post on this topic is arrogant and condescending. You assume that everyone in here doesn't have a clue about what's going on in the world, is completely insensitive toward racial issues and needs your guidance and leadership to see the light, as you take charge in changing the world. You have about as much credibility for this cause as Kaepernik does......a huge beneficiary of white privilige, white upper-class family and can afford to walk away from a job that pays a million dollars a year for the sake of stroking his ego. When you got pressed on what you do, you had nothing. You seem like a big faker to me. I'll be anxiously waiting for my next written warning.
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