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Post by CartMan on Jun 4, 2020 19:16:22 GMT -5
I'm guessing you, or a close family member, was not involved in WWII, which is a bit surprising since you are an old timer. And you bring European football into the discussion. You lost me there. USA USA. Oldtimer, aren't you a hockey fan. May I suggest Miracle. Dad was a WW2 vet. Does Okinawa ring a bell? I did 6 years during Vietnam. My brother was with the 101st Airborne and came out of the war with 100% disability. FIL WW2 vet in the European theater, then 38 years in the National Guard. Has nothing to do with patriotism being usurped for political purposes, which was my main point.OOOH, you just got BURNED!!
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Post by what is hip ? on Jun 4, 2020 19:19:23 GMT -5
I'm guessing you, or a close family member, was not involved in WWII, which is a bit surprising since you are an old timer. And you bring European football into the discussion. You lost me there. USA USA. Oldtimer, aren't you a hockey fan. May I suggest Miracle. Dad was a WW2 vet. Does Okinawa ring a bell? I did 6 years during Vietnam. My brother was with the 101st Airborne and came out of the war with 100% disability. FIL WW2 vet in the European theater, then 38 years in the National Guard. Has nothing to do with patriotism being usurped for political purposes, which was my main point. Yes, thank you for your service oldtimer. My dad was stationed out of New Guinea in WWII with assignments to the Philippines. He was an officer - attending a military school in HS in Virginia and then ROTC at Williams College prior to the war which got him to officer status. As he would explain it - he was lucky - no direct conflict - but he would be in the group that would go in and pick up the pieces and witnessed the aftermath. The aftermath affected him as he would not talk much about it. At any rate, my upbringing was that the Flag and Anthem were tops. Memorial Day was important... as a group that my dad organized would go thru every cemetery in our town putting new flags on the graves of veterans. This was a job often taken on by the VFW, but my dad took it to different level - he would plant red geraniums at the graves that clearly had no family left in the community. So, I think service does have something to do with being Patriotic. But you don't and that is OK.
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Post by what is hip ? on Jun 4, 2020 19:20:09 GMT -5
Dad was a WW2 vet. Does Okinawa ring a bell? I did 6 years during Vietnam. My brother was with the 101st Airborne and came out of the war with 100% disability. FIL WW2 vet in the European theater, then 38 years in the National Guard. Has nothing to do with patriotism being usurped for political purposes, which was my main point. OOOH, you just got BURNED!!
No, I don't think I did. Explain what you do
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Post by MonkeyBrook on Jun 4, 2020 19:23:17 GMT -5
I'm guessing you, or a close family member, was not involved in WWII, which is a bit surprising since you are an old timer. And you bring European football into the discussion. You lost me there. USA USA. Oldtimer, aren't you a hockey fan. May I suggest Miracle. Dad was a WW2 vet. Does Okinawa ring a bell? I did 6 years during Vietnam. My brother was with the 101st Airborne and came out of the war with 100% disability. FIL WW2 vet in the European theater, then 38 years in the National Guard. Has nothing to do with patriotism being usurped for political purposes, which was my main point. God bless you and your family. Thank you for the service.
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Post by CartMan on Jun 4, 2020 19:52:40 GMT -5
OOOH, you just got BURNED!!
No, I don't think I did. Explain what you do I am an entertainer ( non- union) but, I think you would love my act
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 4, 2020 20:11:34 GMT -5
Dad was a WW2 vet. Does Okinawa ring a bell? I did 6 years during Vietnam. My brother was with the 101st Airborne and came out of the war with 100% disability. FIL WW2 vet in the European theater, then 38 years in the National Guard. Has nothing to do with patriotism being usurped for political purposes, which was my main point. Yes, thank you for your service oldtimer. My dad was stationed out of New Guinea in WWII with assignments to the Philippines. He was an officer - attending a military school in HS in Virginia and then ROTC at Williams College prior to the war which got him to officer status. As he would explain it - he was lucky - no direct conflict - but he would be in the group that would go in and pick up the pieces and witnessed the aftermath. The aftermath affected him as he would not talk much about it. At any rate, my upbringing was that the Flag and Anthem were tops. Memorial Day was important... as a group that my dad organized would go thru every cemetery in our town putting new flags on the graves of veterans. This was a job often taken on by the VFW, but my dad took it to different level - he would plant red geraniums at the graves that clearly had no family left in the community. So, I think service does have something to do with being Patriotic. But you don't and that is OK. Is that what you said, oldtimer? Certainly wasn’t my takeaway at all. I would disagree (and that’s ok, we can disagree, right?) on two points... The first is that the flag and anthem are tops. I would rank the values and way of life that those symbols represent way above the symbols themselves. But that’s me. The second is the inference that you (speaking generally, not you specifically) are necessarily more patriotic if you have a service background, either directly or indirectly, than someone who doesn’t or that you can’t be as patriotic if you don’t have that background as someone who does. You didn’t serve, but you are patriotic. I didn’t serve, but I am patriotic. Are you more patriotic than I am because of your upbringing? I don’t know, how do you measure that? Maybe a different perspective on it, but more patriotic? Sorry I don’t buy that. I don’t need to give my resume, but I do have family who served, and I do have close friends who have served, several that are still serving (and some who’s kids now are), including my best friend since high school who is 30 years in and is currently deployed in the Middle East (by the way, he was not even born in the USA). Are they why I have a very deep sense of patriotism and have volunteered with vets programs and have been on the staff of the American Legion Boys State program since attending the program as a student in high school (if your not familiar you should look it up, an amazing program really)? I understand and respect that service can impact someone’s perspective on patriotism deepen a commitment to patriotism and even instill patriotism in people who didn’t have it. But I don’t believe service is a prerequisite for patriotism in any way. And a service background doesn’t automatically mean you are more patriotic than someone else. I don’t know if you meant to suggest it is, but that’s what it sounds like to me. YMMV.
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Post by riverskier on Jun 4, 2020 20:48:50 GMT -5
This just keeps going. Watching you guys go back and forth is mind numbing. It truly shows that we are not very far away from being a failed democracy. There is never any middle ground anymore. We are so fucked as a country. All people can do is blame and never work out solutions. Democrat or Republican, you are both equally to blame and both completely out of your minds. The blame is nowhere near equal. I have noticed over the last few years, not just during the covid era, that liberals seem to be judging people as human beings based on their political philosophy, and actively trying to create a social divide in our society. It's trully sad to see the hate and vitriol from liberals. It's a you are with us or against us philosophy, sad... Zen Master and GMs posts really exemplify this dynamic. The last time society was this divided politically was when the Democrats wanted to keep their slaves, but the Republicans prevailed.
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Post by what is hip ? on Jun 4, 2020 20:49:53 GMT -5
Yes, thank you for your service oldtimer. My dad was stationed out of New Guinea in WWII with assignments to the Philippines. He was an officer - attending a military school in HS in Virginia and then ROTC at Williams College prior to the war which got him to officer status. As he would explain it - he was lucky - no direct conflict - but he would be in the group that would go in and pick up the pieces and witnessed the aftermath. The aftermath affected him as he would not talk much about it. At any rate, my upbringing was that the Flag and Anthem were tops. Memorial Day was important... as a group that my dad organized would go thru every cemetery in our town putting new flags on the graves of veterans. This was a job often taken on by the VFW, but my dad took it to different level - he would plant red geraniums at the graves that clearly had no family left in the community. So, I think service does have something to do with being Patriotic. But you don't and that is OK. Is that what you said, oldtimer? Certainly wasn’t my takeaway at all. I would disagree (and that’s ok, we can disagree, right?) on two points... The first is that the flag and anthem are tops. I would rank the values and way of life that those symbols represent way above the symbols themselves. But that’s me. The second is the inference that you (speaking generally, not you specifically) are somehow more patriotic if you have a service background, either directly or indirectly, or that you can’t be as patriotic if you don’t have that background as someone who does. You didn’t serve, but you are patriotic. I didn’t serve, but I am patriotic. Are you more patriotic than I am because of your upbringing? I don’t know, how do you measure that? Maybe a different perspective on it, but more patriotic? Sorry I don’t buy that. I don’t need to give my resume, but I do have family who served, and I do have close friends who have served, several that are still serving (and some who’s kids now are), including my best friend since high school who is 30 years in and is currently deployed in the Middle East (by the way, he was not even born in the USA). Are they why I have a very deep sense of patriotism and have volunteered with vets programs and have been on the staff of the American Legion Boys State program since attending the program as a student in high school (if your not familiar you should look it up, an amazing program really)? I understand and respect that service can impact someone’s perspective on patriotism deepen a commitment to patriotism and even instill patriotism in people who didn’t have it. But I don’t believe service is a prerequisite for patriotism in any way. And a service background doesn’t automatically mean you are more patriotic than someone else. I don’t know if you meant to suggest it is, but that’s what it sounds like to me. YMMV. Who is this post addressed to. Me or oldtimer? I understood oldtimers point and was just reacting to it. I don't understand yours at all. Be as patriotic as you want. Don't be patriotic. I want to be patriotic. I get to be. Oldtimer can reference European soccer as to why he is not patriotic. That makes zero sense to me, but he can do that. Zen your just being a piece of drift wood now and that is what you do best. Congrats.
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 4, 2020 20:53:56 GMT -5
This just keeps going. Watching you guys go back and forth is mind numbing. It truly shows that we are not very far away from being a failed democracy. There is never any middle ground anymore. We are so fucked as a country. All people can do is blame and never work out solutions. Democrat or Republican, you are both equally to blame and both completely out of your minds. The blame is nowhere near equal. I have noticed over the last few years, not just during the covid era, that liberals seem to be judging people as human beings based on their political philosophy, and actively trying to create a social divide in our society. It's trully sad to see the hate and vitriol from liberals. It's a you are with us or against us philosophy, sad... Zen Master and GMs posts really exemplify this dynamic. The last time society was this divided politically was when the Democrats wanted to keep their slaves, but the Republicans prevailed. What’s a “liberal” in your world?
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 4, 2020 20:55:55 GMT -5
Is that what you said, oldtimer? Certainly wasn’t my takeaway at all. I would disagree (and that’s ok, we can disagree, right?) on two points... The first is that the flag and anthem are tops. I would rank the values and way of life that those symbols represent way above the symbols themselves. But that’s me. The second is the inference that you (speaking generally, not you specifically) are somehow more patriotic if you have a service background, either directly or indirectly, or that you can’t be as patriotic if you don’t have that background as someone who does. You didn’t serve, but you are patriotic. I didn’t serve, but I am patriotic. Are you more patriotic than I am because of your upbringing? I don’t know, how do you measure that? Maybe a different perspective on it, but more patriotic? Sorry I don’t buy that. I don’t need to give my resume, but I do have family who served, and I do have close friends who have served, several that are still serving (and some who’s kids now are), including my best friend since high school who is 30 years in and is currently deployed in the Middle East (by the way, he was not even born in the USA). Are they why I have a very deep sense of patriotism and have volunteered with vets programs and have been on the staff of the American Legion Boys State program since attending the program as a student in high school (if your not familiar you should look it up, an amazing program really)? I understand and respect that service can impact someone’s perspective on patriotism deepen a commitment to patriotism and even instill patriotism in people who didn’t have it. But I don’t believe service is a prerequisite for patriotism in any way. And a service background doesn’t automatically mean you are more patriotic than someone else. I don’t know if you meant to suggest it is, but that’s what it sounds like to me. YMMV. Who is this post addressed to. Me or oldtimer? I understood oldtimers point and was just reacting to it. I don't understand yours at all. Be as patriotic as you want. Don't be patriotic. I want to be patriotic. I get to be. Oldtimer can reference European soccer as to why he is not patriotic. That makes zero sense to me, but he can do that. Zen your just being a piece of drift wood now and that is what you do best. Congrats. If you can’t figure out who that is addressed to then I’m not surprised that you totally missed oldtimer’s point, and mine as well.
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Post by what is hip ? on Jun 4, 2020 21:18:40 GMT -5
The blame is nowhere near equal. I have noticed over the last few years, not just during the covid era, that liberals seem to be judging people as human beings based on their political philosophy, and actively trying to create a social divide in our society. It's trully sad to see the hate and vitriol from liberals. It's a you are with us or against us philosophy, sad... Zen Master and GMs posts really exemplify this dynamic. The last time society was this divided politically was when the Democrats wanted to keep their slaves, but the Republicans prevailed. What’s a “liberal” in your world? The questions keep coming.
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Post by what is hip ? on Jun 4, 2020 21:20:25 GMT -5
Who is this post addressed to. Me or oldtimer? I understood oldtimers point and was just reacting to it. I don't understand yours at all. Be as patriotic as you want. Don't be patriotic. I want to be patriotic. I get to be. Oldtimer can reference European soccer as to why he is not patriotic. That makes zero sense to me, but he can do that. Zen your just being a piece of drift wood now and that is what you do best. Congrats. If you can’t figure out who that is addressed to then I’m not surprised that you totally missed oldtimer’s point, and mine as well. Maybe be more clear. I didn't miss oldtimers point, I addressed it. I have no idea what yours is.
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 4, 2020 21:26:22 GMT -5
If you can’t figure out who that is addressed to then I’m not surprised that you totally missed oldtimer’s point, and mine as well. Maybe be more clear. I didn't miss oldtimers point, I addressed it. I have no idea what yours is. You didn’t address his point at all, so clearly you didn’t get it.
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Post by noturns on Jun 4, 2020 21:34:05 GMT -5
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Post by noturns on Jun 4, 2020 21:45:36 GMT -5
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