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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 4, 2020 15:23:50 GMT -5
Ranked Choice would be nice for introducing new ideas. However, we can't even freakin figure out who wins an election now with only 2 options.... Or 3, if you think Joe Exotic now has the base to make a serious run from prison.
Assuming it survives the GOP challenge this fall (they’ve been collecting sigs for a ballot initiative to repeal RCV).
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Post by hawk on Jun 4, 2020 15:28:34 GMT -5
This just keeps going. Watching you guys go back and forth is mind numbing. It truly shows that we are not very far away from being a failed democracy. There is never any middle ground anymore. We are so fucked as a country. All people can do is blame and never work out solutions. Democrat or Republican, you are both equally to blame and both completely out of your minds. Hawk, JHC - when the skiing comes back - this will be a ski chat again. For now, if you don't like us then don't participate. I certainly don't want your head to explode. BTW, I think it shows we are in a healthy democracy. No one is banning our thoughts in here. Mach is doing the job well. Participate or don't. It's your call. I have no problem with freedom of speech. You guys can say how you feel and I good with that. I was speaking more in general terms. It's just the whole country these days. The shit that comes out of people mouths. Most of if defies logic. It's astounding.
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Post by MonkeyBrook on Jun 4, 2020 16:10:05 GMT -5
I am not a fan of the kneeling...if players want to support anti racism, police brutality, I still feel there is a better way to do it than not standing for the National Anthem...for so many that is about the flag and respect....I love Kal, and admire his balls. I just think a different forum could have been chosen to make this important point.
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Post by dickc49 on Jun 4, 2020 16:40:34 GMT -5
I am not a fan of the kneeling...if players want to support anti racism, police brutality, I still feel there is a better way to do it than not standing for the National Anthem...for so many that is about the flag and respect....I love Kal, and admire his balls. I just think a different forum could have been chosen to make this important point. I think if Kap had gone to the SF police and done some ride alongs, and did what he could to change SFPD attitudes, it would have done A LOT more for the narrative. I do not like the kneeling stuff either. Yes, its Constitutional to kneel, but......
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 4, 2020 17:48:30 GMT -5
I am not a fan of the kneeling...if players want to support anti racism, police brutality, I still feel there is a better way to do it than not standing for the National Anthem...for so many that is about the flag and respect....I love Kal, and admire his balls. I just think a different forum could have been chosen to make this important point. Except it was the perfect place/time if the goal was to get noticed and bring attention to his cause. He picked the “forum” that was available to his that would have the biggest impact. Of course he has paid a price, but not sure what other forum he could have used that would have have even close to the same reach. Ride alongs with the SFPD that dick suggests would have had zero public notice or impact.
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Post by dickc49 on Jun 4, 2020 18:03:55 GMT -5
I am not a fan of the kneeling...if players want to support anti racism, police brutality, I still feel there is a better way to do it than not standing for the National Anthem...for so many that is about the flag and respect....I love Kal, and admire his balls. I just think a different forum could have been chosen to make this important point. Except it was the perfect place/time if the goal was to get noticed and bring attention to his cause. He picked the “forum” that was available to his that would have the biggest impact. Of course he has paid a price, but not sure what other forum he could have used that would have have even close to the same reach. Ride alongs with the SFPD that dick suggests would have had zero public notice or impact. Kap had enough name recognition that both he and SFPD could have used it to promote the narrative. The press would have eaten that right up. Its just the type of "feel Good" reporting they love to do.
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 4, 2020 18:13:53 GMT -5
Except it was the perfect place/time if the goal was to get noticed and bring attention to his cause. He picked the “forum” that was available to his that would have the biggest impact. Of course he has paid a price, but not sure what other forum he could have used that would have have even close to the same reach. Ride alongs with the SFPD that dick suggests would have had zero public notice or impact. Kap had enough name recognition that both he and SFPD could have used it to promote the narrative. The press would have eaten that right up. Its just the type of "feel Good" reporting they love to do. Could not disagree more in terms of the PR value. It’s a good idea for him to do maybe in addition, but If he did only that do you think anyone be talking about it more than 5 minutes after the puff piece on the local news aired? He’s been out of the NFL for years and what he did is still being talked about (and not all bad either). Come on, think about it.
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Post by what is hip ? on Jun 4, 2020 18:20:53 GMT -5
I am not a fan of the kneeling...if players want to support anti racism, police brutality, I still feel there is a better way to do it than not standing for the National Anthem...for so many that is about the flag and respect....I love Kal, and admire his balls. I just think a different forum could have been chosen to make this important point. Again, I agree totally here. But, and this one's for you Zen, if Trump had stayed out of the kneeling issue back then, it would have gone away tout de suite.
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 4, 2020 18:22:31 GMT -5
I am not a fan of the kneeling...if players want to support anti racism, police brutality, I still feel there is a better way to do it than not standing for the National Anthem...for so many that is about the flag and respect....I love Kal, and admire his balls. I just think a different forum could have been chosen to make this important point. Again, I agree totally here. But, and this one's for you Zen, if Trump had stayed out of the kneeling issue back then, it would have gone away tout de suite. So, you’re blaming Trump?
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Post by oldtimer on Jun 4, 2020 18:34:00 GMT -5
Interesting discussion. Enjoying all the comments. Ya know, I'm getting kind of sick of all the patriotic bullshit going on these days. Now I'm as patriotic as anyone, but I don't have to make a big display of it. And I'm a big time liberal, too. Why does the right wing feel it has a lock on patriotism? Just like they seem to think they have a lock on God. Because Colin Kaepernick knelt during the anthem, does that make him less of a patriot than our president, who bailed on the Vietnam War with a phony deferment? Ever notice that all those pickup trucks you see displaying the American flag usually have Trump stickers, too. Why does there have to be a connection?
The idea of playing the national anthem before athletic contests has used up its usefulness.. Save it for big occasions like the Super Bowl. I never hear the anthem played before European soccer games. Hell, I'm more moved listening to 45,000 Liverpool fans singing "You'll Never Walk Alone" before a game than some 8 year old singing the anthem before a Red Sox game. And like I said, I'm a patriot!
God is another issue. Funny story. When I was playing high school hockey for a Catholic school, we had a tradition in which the 6 starters would kneel down in our goalie crease and say the Our Father before the opening faceoff. One game when I was a junior, we all knelt down and our captain, instead of a prayer, recited "Mary had a little lamb." The rest of us almost wet our pants laughing. Then we went out and kicked our opponent's ass. Guess God had a sense of humor, too.
The point is that so much of what goes on today is pure bullshit that both sides take way too seriously. Who cares if a player kneels during the anthem or if someone races around with a flag on his pickup? Myself, I'd feel more comfortable in a foxhole with Colin Kaepernick than Donald Trump.
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Post by what is hip ? on Jun 4, 2020 18:38:28 GMT -5
Zen said: So, you’re blaming Trump?
Haha. Yeah. Trump every now and then goes off on an issue (that, in this instance I totally agree with) but the issue does not need the CIC bandwidth. Obama did this more often, BTW - think Cambridge Police for instance. I think Trump would have been better served letting this issue play out on its own. It would have come to the same conclusion, as NFL TV ratings that year proved the point.
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Post by what is hip ? on Jun 4, 2020 18:43:40 GMT -5
Interesting discussion. Enjoying all the comments. Ya know, I'm getting kind of sick of all the patriotic bullshit going on these days. Now I'm as patriotic as anyone, but I don't have to make a big display of it. And I'm a big time liberal, too. Why does the right wing feel it has a lock on patriotism? Just like they seem to think they have a lock on God. Because Colin Kaepernick knelt during the anthem, does that make him less of a patriot than our president, who bailed on the Vietnam War with a phony deferment? Ever notice that all those pickup trucks you see displaying the American flag usually have Trump stickers, too. Why does there have to be a connection? The idea of playing the national anthem before athletic contests has used up its usefulness.. Save it for big occasions like the Super Bowl. I never hear the anthem played before European soccer games. Hell, I'm more moved listening to 45,000 Liverpool fans singing "You'll Never Walk Alone" before a game than some 8 year old singing the anthem before a Red Sox game. And like I said, I'm a patriot! God is another issue. Funny story. When I was playing high school hockey for a Catholic school, we had a tradition in which the 6 starters would kneel down in our goalie crease and say the Our Father before the opening faceoff. One game when I was a junior, we all knelt down and our captain, instead of a prayer, recited "Mary had a little lamb." The rest of us almost wet our pants laughing. Then we went out and kicked our opponent's ass. Guess God had a sense of humor, too. The point is that so much of what goes on today is pure bullshit that both sides take way too seriously. Who cares if a player kneels during the anthem or if someone races around with a flag on his pickup? Myself, I'd feel more comfortable in a foxhole with Colin Kaepernick than Donald Trump. I'm guessing you, or a close family member, was not involved in WWII, which is a bit surprising since you are an old timer. And you bring European football into the discussion. You lost me there. USA USA. Oldtimer, aren't you a hockey fan. May I suggest Miracle. preemptive edit - I know the anthem is a relatively / more recent trend in sports. But they always played it when I went to games... and I'm now an AARP member. My dad was a Sox and Watriots season tix holder for years. Went to a bunch of games as a kid.
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 4, 2020 18:45:25 GMT -5
Haha. Yeah. Trump every now and then goes off on an issue (that, in this instance I totally agree with) but the issue does not need the CIC bandwidth. Obama did this more often, BTW - think Cambridge Police for instance. I think Trump would have been better served letting this issue play out on its own. It would have come to the same conclusion, as NFL TV ratings that year proved the point. I’m not so sure about that. Then again Obama was in office for 8 years, Trump is only in his 3rd.
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Post by oldtimer on Jun 4, 2020 18:51:49 GMT -5
Interesting discussion. Enjoying all the comments. Ya know, I'm getting kind of sick of all the patriotic bullshit going on these days. Now I'm as patriotic as anyone, but I don't have to make a big display of it. And I'm a big time liberal, too. Why does the right wing feel it has a lock on patriotism? Just like they seem to think they have a lock on God. Because Colin Kaepernick knelt during the anthem, does that make him less of a patriot than our president, who bailed on the Vietnam War with a phony deferment? Ever notice that all those pickup trucks you see displaying the American flag usually have Trump stickers, too. Why does there have to be a connection? The idea of playing the national anthem before athletic contests has used up its usefulness.. Save it for big occasions like the Super Bowl. I never hear the anthem played before European soccer games. Hell, I'm more moved listening to 45,000 Liverpool fans singing "You'll Never Walk Alone" before a game than some 8 year old singing the anthem before a Red Sox game. And like I said, I'm a patriot! God is another issue. Funny story. When I was playing high school hockey for a Catholic school, we had a tradition in which the 6 starters would kneel down in our goalie crease and say the Our Father before the opening faceoff. One game when I was a junior, we all knelt down and our captain, instead of a prayer, recited "Mary had a little lamb." The rest of us almost wet our pants laughing. Then we went out and kicked our opponent's ass. Guess God had a sense of humor, too. The point is that so much of what goes on today is pure bullshit that both sides take way too seriously. Who cares if a player kneels during the anthem or if someone races around with a flag on his pickup? Myself, I'd feel more comfortable in a foxhole with Colin Kaepernick than Donald Trump. I'm guessing you, or a close family member, was not involved in WWII, which is a bit surprising since you are an old timer. And you bring European football into the discussion. You lost me there. USA USA. Oldtimer, aren't you a hockey fan. May I suggest Miracle. Dad was a WW2 vet. Does Okinawa ring a bell? I did 6 years during Vietnam. My brother was with the 101st Airborne and came out of the war with 100% disability. FIL WW2 vet in the European theater, then 38 years in the National Guard. Has nothing to do with patriotism being usurped for political purposes, which was my main point.
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Post by ZenMaster on Jun 4, 2020 18:56:03 GMT -5
I'm guessing you, or a close family member, was not involved in WWII, which is a bit surprising since you are an old timer. And you bring European football into the discussion. You lost me there. USA USA. Oldtimer, aren't you a hockey fan. May I suggest Miracle. Dad was a WW2 vet. Does Okinawa ring a bell? I did 6 years during Vietnam. My brother was with the 101st Airborne and came out of the war with 100% disability. FIL WW2 vet in the European theater, then 38 years in the National Guard. Has nothing to do with patriotism being usurped for political purposes, which was my main point. Thanks for your service, oldtimer.
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