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Post by ZenMaster on Nov 12, 2020 12:27:06 GMT -5
"To win, Mr. Trump must prove systemic fraud, with illegal votes in the tens of thousands. There is no evidence of that so far. Unless some emerges quickly, the president's chances in court will decline precipitously when states start certifying results.” -Karl Rove So no comment on the lie and/or fraud of a Biden required shutdown? Neutral my ass What are you talking about?
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Post by Machski on Nov 12, 2020 12:44:15 GMT -5
With a less than 2% chance of dying, I would take my chances. I don't understand the fixation of needing the government to dictate what you can and can't do. If you are old, at high risk, or scared then by all means don't go outside, don't go out in public. This whole fairytale of being told we need to stay home for four to six weeks and that we will be compensated is a load of shit, really. Nothing is going to stop it or slow it or whatever you want to call it. People are generally well within a few days and 98% do not die. I don't get why this is such a big deal. What is really going on "behind the scenes" that the government and media are deciding to make this the "look over here" story that it has become? So the fed govt should do nothing? Really, Mach? Come on. Show me where I said fed should do nothing. That said, a lockdown for 4-6 weeks is not something that would not cost the US goverment 10's of Trillions of dollars to implement and cover. They also do not factor in lost and much slower business for likely months if not years after the lockdown would end. So what I am saying is that Biden better not just listen and implement what the medical experts he has talking to him dictate. He needs to weight the costs and counterpoints of ALL his advisors before acting. Centralizing medical response from the federal level is a GOOD idea, a great start. Mask mandate, if he must, is fine by me too, though I will be skeptical how much it would actually help. And it needs to be to science, if its too broad (like must be worn anytime I step out of my personal residence or vehicle regardless of ability to social distance) that won't be followed by those not masking now so useless. Coordinating with state governments on monitoring status at that level and recommending states take stronger action based on caseload/hospital loads is appropriate and allows Governors to stay in the loop and tailor response to their more localized areas. A federal strong arm mandate may get pushback from certain states and I cannot see the feds trying to impose rolling lockdowns in just parts of the country unilaterally, that would be pushed back by certain governors. Finally, for those thinking most are not wearing masks, I think I can say I get out and about the COUNTRY quite a bit more right now than most. Masks are widely used most places I go, espcially in the more heavily populated areas. In Burbank, CA now and last night in Glendale, 100% mask usage out in town. Dining here is limited to outdoor patios only, zero inside restaurant dining. Similar in Herndon, VA. Now some of the more off the beaten path areas are less, Saratoga WY, Montgomery AL as examples. I don't think a federal mandate will change much in either of those for mask usage, but Biden can feel free to try.
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Post by oldtimer on Nov 12, 2020 12:53:30 GMT -5
Zenny, I will share my thoughts again: *If you are old, protect yourself *If you are young, be smart, diligent *Wear masks when in public *Get tested if you think you have been exposed *Get outside, exercise, eat healthy Its not that hard. And I do not think Fed Government should be engaged, what would they do? Threaten me w a fine for not wearing a mask? We went to Scales in Portland last night. No issue. We parked car on Commercial St, put masks on, walked into restaurant...were greeted and seated right away. Tables were spaced. We had awesome meal for MsMB b day and returned home. I am not support closing down all businesses for 4-6 weeks. I have friends, as we all do, with small businesses that need to stay open. And I have (3) kids whose mental health I am worried about...closing shit down and locking people up will not help, it will delay and when the 4-6 weeks is over...then what? It all scales up again. I am prioritizing business/economy/mental health over the deaths of old at risk people...sorry, my call. I think it is easier to protect the 2% dying vs the former things. I will say that I do not think there should be fans at college football games like ND v Clemson this weekend, how the hell is that allowed to happen. Zenny, I think you need to understand that everything you say/think is not shared by others. Everyone is in a different position/situation. Maybe a bit less judging would make your statement/posts more credible. I've been on the sidelines for quite a while as the election played out. Now that it's over, I guess I can engage again. As an almost 74 year old cancer survivor, currently recovering from some surgery, I have to agree with MB's checklist. My wife and I only go out when necessary and wear masks religiously every time we're indoors at an establishment. Prior to my recent surgery I was back playing hockey and going to the gym. But I stopped a few weeks before and now, with the current uptick in covid, I don't think I'll be going back even though I should be OK in a couple of weeks. Mask wearing when coming in contact with others is such common sense that I don't see how anyone can argue. How hard is it? Limiting the size of gatherings/restaurants, etc. is also common sense. Limiting restaurant hours is not needed, as long as the restaurant is following all protocols. I don't even see a problem with allowing a limited number of fans at outdoor sporting events as long as they space them out. High school and college kids are a major problem, though. We need to keep beating mask wearing and distancing into their heads. The government should speak with one voice to urge mask wearing and distancing unlike the past 8-9 months. But don't shut things down unless hospitals are getting overwhelmed. Reading some stuff about what's going on in Vermont with covid restrictions, I'm getting concerned about skiing at SR this winter. I'd feel confident about staying at the Summit and heading out the back door to ski, then just staying in our unit and cooking in and repeating the same thing the next day. Just hope we'll have the chance and that Maine doesn't lock out Mass. residents like it did last summer.
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Post by wheelie on Nov 12, 2020 12:57:26 GMT -5
So no comment on the lie and/or fraud of a Biden required shutdown? Neutral my ass What are you talking about? I will make it as simple as possible. You don’t believe in lockdowns. I assume it’s because you are smart enough to know that it could only be effective if we had 90%+ adherence? I will agree that we could stop this with 90% compliance in a complete lockdown. But I also know we will be lucky to get to 50% compliance, therefore a lockdown is useless. The Biden teams comments that a 4-6 week shutdown will stop this thing are either inept (they dont know half the country won’t comply) or they are lying when they say it will be effective. No comment on that lie or ineptitude by the president elect? You certainly don’t hold back when the lame duck president says anything.
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Post by promontoryrider on Nov 12, 2020 13:02:49 GMT -5
4-6 week lockdown is not stopping this, total PIPEDREAM!!! Learn to live with it, herd immunity until the next virus the Dems unleash!
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Post by wheelie on Nov 12, 2020 13:21:00 GMT -5
4-6 week lockdown is not stopping this, total PIPEDREAM!!! Learn to live with it, herd immunity until the next virus the Dems unleash! I expect our neutral observer ZM will take up the keyboard to opine on this lie that will be perpetrated against out great nation. give up on Trump that horse is beaten and beating what an ex-president says cant be worth his time
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Post by promontoryrider on Nov 12, 2020 13:44:34 GMT -5
4-6 week lockdown is not stopping this, total PIPEDREAM!!! Learn to live with it, herd immunity until the next virus the Dems unleash! I expect our neutral observer ZM will take up the keyboard to opine on this lie that will be perpetrated against out great nation. give up on Trump that horse is beaten and beating what an ex-president says cant be worth his time Nothing to do with Trump, locking everyone down for 4-6 weeks will have minimal effect on COVID19. Just spent a great week in FLA, so refreshing no one down there cares about COVID....many restaurants with servers and bartenders not wearing masks. No mask mandates in the stores...people pass you on the sidewalk in the morning and actually say good morning! Almost no COVID cases where we were. But that's right, they don't have Cuomo as a governor. He was going to punch Trump out, so tough....
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Post by Machski on Nov 12, 2020 13:57:56 GMT -5
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Post by MonkeyBrook on Nov 12, 2020 13:59:50 GMT -5
Zenny, I will share my thoughts again: *If you are old, protect yourself *If you are young, be smart, diligent *Wear masks when in public *Get tested if you think you have been exposed *Get outside, exercise, eat healthy Its not that hard. And I do not think Fed Government should be engaged, what would they do? Threaten me w a fine for not wearing a mask? We went to Scales in Portland last night. No issue. We parked car on Commercial St, put masks on, walked into restaurant...were greeted and seated right away. Tables were spaced. We had awesome meal for MsMB b day and returned home. I am not support closing down all businesses for 4-6 weeks. I have friends, as we all do, with small businesses that need to stay open. And I have (3) kids whose mental health I am worried about...closing shit down and locking people up will not help, it will delay and when the 4-6 weeks is over...then what? It all scales up again. I am prioritizing business/economy/mental health over the deaths of old at risk people...sorry, my call. I think it is easier to protect the 2% dying vs the former things. I will say that I do not think there should be fans at college football games like ND v Clemson this weekend, how the hell is that allowed to happen. Zenny, I think you need to understand that everything you say/think is not shared by others. Everyone is in a different position/situation. Maybe a bit less judging would make your statement/posts more credible. I've been on the sidelines for quite a while as the election played out. Now that it's over, I guess I can engage again. As an almost 74 year old cancer survivor, currently recovering from some surgery, I have to agree with MB's checklist. My wife and I only go out when necessary and wear masks religiously every time we're indoors at an establishment. Prior to my recent surgery I was back playing hockey and going to the gym. But I stopped a few weeks before and now, with the current uptick in covid, I don't think I'll be going back even though I should be OK in a couple of weeks. Mask wearing when coming in contact with others is such common sense that I don't see how anyone can argue. How hard is it? Limiting the size of gatherings/restaurants, etc. is also common sense. Limiting restaurant hours is not needed, as long as the restaurant is following all protocols. I don't even see a problem with allowing a limited number of fans at outdoor sporting events as long as they space them out. High school and college kids are a major problem, though. We need to keep beating mask wearing and distancing into their heads. The government should speak with one voice to urge mask wearing and distancing unlike the past 8-9 months. But don't shut things down unless hospitals are getting overwhelmed. Reading some stuff about what's going on in Vermont with covid restrictions, I'm getting concerned about skiing at SR this winter. I'd feel confident about staying at the Summit and heading out the back door to ski, then just staying in our unit and cooking in and repeating the same thing the next day. Just hope we'll have the chance and that Maine doesn't lock out Mass. residents like it did last summer. Well said Old Timer. I hope my comments of "old" were not offensive to anyone. My parents are both 76, both are cancer survivors and both are very healthy and active (considering)....they have not been very careful, living on Hilton Head where they are carrying on with life more than I am. They know there is a risk, they accept it....they just want back to NJ and I think reality has hit them and they are now being far more cautious. Its a sensitive topic for many. Stay safe.
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Post by MonkeyBrook on Nov 12, 2020 14:01:22 GMT -5
For anyone to think Faucci knows more than anyone else is comical. Guy has been wrong 10x, and keeps changing his mind. A lock down for 4-6 weeks, might slow things down. Even if it does, what happens in week #7? Does it start right back up again? And what is a mask mandate? Who will enforce? Police (who are being defunded) are going to fine me? Chase me down? Does anyone actually think this could work and won't cause more problems?
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Post by MonkeyBrook on Nov 12, 2020 14:02:34 GMT -5
4-6 week lockdown is not stopping this, total PIPEDREAM!!! Learn to live with it, herd immunity until the next virus the Dems unleash! I expect our neutral observer ZM will take up the keyboard to opine on this lie that will be perpetrated against out great nation. give up on Trump that horse is beaten and beating what an ex-president says cant be worth his time This will only inspire more memes from Zenny, someone needs to make Jr type jokes to make him quit again
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Post by hawk on Nov 12, 2020 14:56:10 GMT -5
The virus is coming back. Shutdowns won't be tolerated. The general public is in denial that there is any risk. It is totally irrelevant what anybody says or thinks. People are going to get sick, Hospitals will get overwhelmed and some will die. I pray to god that the people that die are not because I made them sick. The blame will be doled out later. This is the reality of what is going to happen. Really no sense in debating this further. Look I put this all to bed for you guys. Now go back to politics. This isn't the covid thread anyway. I think these topics are intimately connected seeing as how this got started this am. Agreed no one knows. But in the end the world wide pandemic is Trumps fault. Right? I think it has been stated over and over again that the pandemic is not his fault. But not putting out a quick and definitive message was a mistake. It surely has made for more cases and that is not debatable. and I said cases not deaths.
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Post by MonkeyBrook on Nov 12, 2020 15:50:03 GMT -5
I think these topics are intimately connected seeing as how this got started this am. Agreed no one knows. But in the end the world wide pandemic is Trumps fault. Right? I think it has been stated over and over again that the pandemic is not his fault. But not putting out a quick and definitive message was a mistake. It surely has made for more cases and that is not debatable. and I said cases not deaths. sorry, Zenny blames Trump. And it is absolutely debatable whether his actions or not led to more cases. In fact, I might debate that Trumps scaling tests so quickly is a direct reason why we have more "cases". More testing = more cases. Correct?
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Post by ZenMaster on Nov 12, 2020 17:33:57 GMT -5
I think it has been stated over and over again that the pandemic is not his fault. But not putting out a quick and definitive message was a mistake. It surely has made for more cases and that is not debatable. and I said cases not deaths. sorry, Zenny blames Trump. You are crazy if that’s what you think.
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Post by ZenMaster on Nov 12, 2020 17:43:36 GMT -5
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