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Post by rippy on Oct 28, 2020 8:26:39 GMT -5
Hawk - I misspoke ... didn't mean to say shouldn't discuss the ACA/healthcare issues here, just that we shouldn't expect to solve anything. War and Peace would be like cliffsnotes compared to what it would take to cover all sides of the issues. No one would read half of what needs to be discussed. People get paid to do it and don't. dickc49 - agree Kennedy was the one lightning rod of the healthcare debate ... all the way back to Nixon. But are you sure about your timeline? Romney (and "Romneycare") preceded Ted's death. What helped ACA move forward was the insurance industry jumping onboard with the mandate ... more customers, more revenues. Their fight was still trying to negotiate as little coverage as possible for the ACA plans to limit exposure. Get rid of the mandate and the insurance lobby will flip sides again and return to their previous fight agains affordable coverage for pre-existing and/or those who are in need of high cost care. They'll happily dump that risk - not because they are heartless ... it's just business. When I entered the medical industry (early 80's) I was on a plane going to a medical conference/tradeshow in who-knows-where. Ended up sitting next to one of the speakers at the conference. A physician. The topic of healthcare as a right or privilege came up - in my naiveté and idealism (thinking back to the clinic my grandfather had) I expounded on how medicine was an noble calling and therefore it was important to do all we could to make sure everyone had access to proper medical care ... kind of a moral right. He said "that's bullshit, you don't work for free and neither should I. I owe nothing to people who can't pay me." OK-end of discussion. He wasn't wrong, but just seemed like life/health should be on a higher plane (obviously not the one I was flying on ). Welcome to the real world. That’s a funny story. I think many med school programs are offering MBA degrees now.....that’s all you need to know about the modern medical profession.
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Post by ZenMaster on Oct 28, 2020 8:44:26 GMT -5
Sitz, I think that question is key to where we are today, i.e. is health care an absolute right or is it a privilege that should be available only to those who can pay for it? The current system seems to be standing right in the middle of the road on this, and without strong consensus on having the answer one way or the other, It’s hard to see how that is gong to change.
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Post by dickc49 on Oct 28, 2020 13:39:47 GMT -5
dickc49 - agree Kennedy was the one lightning rod of the healthcare debate ... all the way back to Nixon. But are you sure about your timeline? Romney (and "Romneycare") preceded Ted's death. What helped ACA move forward was the insurance industry jumping onboard with the mandate ... more customers, more revenues. Their fight was still trying to negotiate as little coverage as possible for the ACA plans to limit exposure. Get rid of the mandate and the insurance lobby will flip sides again and return to their previous fight agains affordable coverage for pre-existing and/or those who are in need of high cost care. They'll happily dump that risk - not because they are heartless ... it's just business. When I entered the medical industry (early 80's) I was on a plane going to a medical conference/tradeshow in who-knows-where. Ended up sitting next to one of the speakers at the conference. A physician. The topic of healthcare as a right or privilege came up - in my naiveté and idealism (thinking back to the clinic my grandfather had) I expounded on how medicine was an noble calling and therefore it was important to do all we could to make sure everyone had access to proper medical care ... kind of a moral right. He said "that's bullshit, you don't work for free and neither should I. I owe nothing to people who can't pay me." OK-end of discussion. He wasn't wrong, but just seemed like life/health should be on a higher plane (obviously not the one I was flying on ). Welcome to the real world. I'm sure certain things were needed to make the ACA work. In Mass, remember that "Romney care" was 35 pages long. How long was the ACA? "The bill was around 2700 pages long when it passed and the condensed version was around 900 pages long". It contains a whole lot of "stuff" that was surely not needed. I'm sure the insurance industry would be "writing" much of the bill from the lobbyist sidelines.
The BIG point of my post was as to how much of a political football the ACA has become because of the Democratic parties "exclusionary" writing of it. We should always have bi-partisan buy in of major legislation like that. The fact they did not is why there is still so much bickering over it. I also think that Washington politics would be less divided that it is now, but any one could argue otherwise and be just as right.
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Post by rippy on Oct 28, 2020 13:40:02 GMT -5
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Post by Barker on Oct 28, 2020 14:01:10 GMT -5
Both presidential campaigns are interested in that one EC vote. Pence, Trump and Jill Biden have all visited lately. Colby College poll in 2016 projected Trump would win the 2nd district by 10% which was spot on. Their latest poll shows Biden up 4% in the 2nd. Polls also show Golden up by a mile over Crafts for the 2nd district House seat, and even Gideon leading Collins in the 2nd. As for the hospitals, two rural ones declared bankruptcy back around April then successfully fought to get the stimulus funds, which weren't supposed to be given to bankrupt corps.
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Post by patroller on Oct 28, 2020 14:10:00 GMT -5
Both presidential campaigns are interested in that one EC vote. Pence, Trump and Jill Biden have all visited lately. Colby College poll in 2016 projected Trump would win the 2nd district by 10% which was spot on. Their latest poll shows Biden up 4% in the 2nd. Polls also show Golden up by a mile over Crafts for the 2nd district House seat, and even Gideon leading Collins in the 2nd. As for the hospitals, two rural ones declared bankruptcy back around April then successfully fought to get the stimulus funds, which weren't supposed to be given to bankrupt corps. Correct ! Calais Regional Hospital and Penobscot Valley Hospital in Lincoln are closing
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Post by Barker on Oct 28, 2020 14:24:50 GMT -5
Both presidential campaigns are interested in that one EC vote. Pence, Trump and Jill Biden have all visited lately. Colby College poll in 2016 projected Trump would win the 2nd district by 10% which was spot on. Their latest poll shows Biden up 4% in the 2nd. Polls also show Golden up by a mile over Crafts for the 2nd district House seat, and even Gideon leading Collins in the 2nd. As for the hospitals, two rural ones declared bankruptcy back around April then successfully fought to get the stimulus funds, which weren't supposed to be given to bankrupt corps. Correct ! Calais Regional Hospital and Penobscot Valley Hospital in Lincoln are closing
Correction to my bankruptcy dates and their status - Calais filed in Sept 2019 and PVH in January 2020, so both were in distress pre-pandemic. Both tried to get PPP money and apparently didn't.
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Post by sitzmark on Oct 28, 2020 14:40:30 GMT -5
I'm sure certain things were needed to make the ACA work. In Mass, remember that "Romney care" was 35 pages long. How long was the ACA? "The bill was around 2700 pages long when it passed and the condensed version was around 900 pages long". It contains a whole lot of "stuff" that was surely not needed. I'm sure the insurance industry would be "writing" much of the bill from the lobbyist sidelines.
The BIG point of my post was as to how much of a political football the ACA has become because of the Democratic parties "exclusionary" writing of it. We should always have bi-partisan buy in of major legislation like that. The fact they did not is why there is still so much bickering over it. I also think that Washington politics would be less divided that it is now, but any one could argue otherwise and be just as right.
No small part of that goes back to Democrat efforts to work with Republicans to craft Ted's then Hillary's versions of health reform over the years. No cooperation there, except for the teaming of Kennedy and Hatch. Even then not much. By the time it came to Obama the dem's took the "elections have consequences" (EHC) route and got'er done. Not the first and not the last time EHC will rule the day. <wink> You are right, the lack of inclusion increased the bitterness of the fight, but ACA was never going to have any R support. From day one "Obummer" and anything he wanted to accomplish was enemy #1. And so it goes with a little extra sauce with each election ... and will continue to go from all indications.
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Post by ZenMaster on Oct 28, 2020 14:51:02 GMT -5
From day one "Obummer" and anything he wanted to accomplish was enemy #1. And so it goes with a little extra sauce with each election ... and will continue to go from all indications. ^^^^ This
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Post by patroller on Oct 28, 2020 15:05:00 GMT -5
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Post by promontoryrider on Oct 28, 2020 15:09:53 GMT -5
That would never happen at a Biden rally....you could give everyone attending a ride home in a Pinto hatchback....
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Post by ZenMaster on Oct 28, 2020 15:34:32 GMT -5
Trump's campaign rallies have come under scrutiny during the COVID-19 pandemic, especially as the president staged unmasked, undistanced rallies. A USA TODAY analysis found that five counties that held Trump rallies had higher rates of COVID after Trump showed up.Trump is literally the harbinger of death. 💀
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Post by Barker on Oct 28, 2020 15:37:16 GMT -5
That would never happen at a Biden rally....you could give everyone attending a ride home in a Pinto hatchback.... Biden has drive in rallies...no need to ride a bus
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Post by promontoryrider on Oct 28, 2020 15:44:21 GMT -5
Photoshopped....
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Post by noturns on Oct 28, 2020 16:00:56 GMT -5
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