|
Post by ZenMaster on Nov 20, 2020 13:04:38 GMT -5
So, you’re saying that you do this at your company all the time? You say it happens all the time so I asked someone who is very well qualified to answer...he has been (and currently is) CFO for several well known Maine brands that you would recognize. He agreed with me, FWIW. Ok, I’m done with this one. When you asked your friend did you use the “evade tax” line? If so I can imagine the response you got. You have no idea if it was to avoid taxes or whether she earned the fees. Yes. And I do have a pretty good idea, but clearly I don’t know absolutely for sure and neither do you but you don’t want to even consider the possibility as far as I can tell. How much longer do you want to keep this going? I will keep responding if you want to keep asking questions but like I said I think this horse has been beaten to death. And fwiw, you didn’t answer my question about whether this kind of arrangement of paying employees consulting fees for projects that are also being comp’d to manage as an employee is something that happens at your company all the time (or at all).
|
|
|
Post by wheelie on Nov 20, 2020 13:14:09 GMT -5
When you asked your friend did you use the “evade tax” line? If so I can imagine the response you got. You have no idea if it was to avoid taxes or whether she earned the fees. Yes. And I do have a pretty good idea, but clearly I don’t know absolutely for sure and neither do you but you don’t want to even consider the possibility as far as I can tell. How much longer do you want to keep this going? I will keep responding if you want to keep asking questions but like I said I think this horse has been beaten to death. And fwiw, you didn’t answer my question about whether this kind of arrangement of paying employees consulting fees for projects that are also being comp’d to manage as an employee is something that happens at your company all the time (or at all). My company is too small for that to make any difference. I take advantage of every piece of the tax code that my CPA/tax attorney says I can and I have no trouble doing it. And I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt it happens with Real Estate Developers I have worked with.
|
|
|
Post by rippy on Nov 20, 2020 13:14:40 GMT -5
Unethical for sure. Possibly illegal if it was done solely for tax avoidance, which seems likely but would be hard to prove in court. I can't believe I'm posting this, but I generally agree. Just because it's done a lot, doesn't mean it's legal. Everything's legal until you get audited. Another popular "strategy" is putting all your family members' cars on the business books and writing off all the expenses and not reporting it on their W2 or 1099. Same deal....legal until you get caught. Oddly, the companies that I've seen do this type of crap tend to be concentrated in the real estate development/ construction industry. Lots of sleazy operators.
|
|
|
Post by what is hip ? on Nov 20, 2020 13:21:02 GMT -5
So, you’re saying that you do this at your company all the time? You say it happens all the time so I asked someone who is very well qualified to answer...he has been (and currently is) CFO for several well known Maine brands that you would recognize. He agreed with me, FWIW. Ok, I’m done with this one. If its such an honorable company and friend, please name it so people on here can give them some business. I would think they'd want it out there that they do "the right thing"
|
|
|
Post by MonkeyBrook on Nov 20, 2020 13:27:08 GMT -5
so, let me recap...you are right again, you got someone to agree with you, and you are taking your ball and going home? Why would you even post this after busting on me for keeping this topic alive (even though I wasn’t the one who revived it)? The horse has been beaten to death. You always like to tell me it’s time to move so I’m taking your advice, you should too. you mean you still havent figured out that I am fucking with you? Jesus Zenny, pay attention.
|
|
|
Post by wheelie on Nov 20, 2020 13:54:31 GMT -5
Unethical for sure. Possibly illegal if it was done solely for tax avoidance, which seems likely but would be hard to prove in court. I can't believe I'm posting this, but I generally agree. Just because it's done a lot, doesn't mean it's legal. Everything's legal until you get audited. Another popular "strategy" is putting all your family members' cars on the business books and writing off all the expenses and not reporting it on their W2 or 1099. Same deal....legal until you get caught. Oddly, the companies that I've seen do this type of crap tend to be concentrated in the real estate development/ construction industry. Lots of sleazy operators. What you’re talking about with car expenses is clearly illegal. It is done but it is clearly against tax code. Paying a consultant to perform a service (no matter the value) is not. What Trump did is not illegal. If it were then the NYT article would have been followed by a call from the IRS. And yes I work in RED and Construction so maybe that’s why I am used to seeing this kind of thing.
|
|
|
Post by ZenMaster on Nov 20, 2020 14:15:44 GMT -5
What Trump did is not illegal. If it were then the NYT article would have been followed by a call from the IRS. How do you know he didn’t get a call from the IRS, or that they aren’t already investigating? According to Trump himself, he’s been under audit since at least 2016 and is constantly being hounded by the IRS, and so it stands to reason that this kind of thing is one of the reasons. And for the last time no one is saying that “paying a consultant to perform a service” is illegal, I’ve done that myself plenty of times and there nothing unusual about it and we agree on that. Paying an employee as an employee AND as a consultant to perform the same services is questionable and unethical at best, and illegal at worst if being done to avoid paying taxes (would be hard to prove without some sort of smoking gun). PS - Out of curiosity I googled “it is legal to pay an employee as a consultant” and the top hit was this article. You can read and decide for yourself, but even though they don’t specially address paying someone as both and employee AND a consultant at the same time, it certainly reads to me that the IRS would not look very kindly at this practice, especially since they seem to be pretty focused on classifying someone as one or the other... “Keep in mind that improper classification of employees as independent contractors could expose a company to substantial liability for the payment of back taxes if the IRS were to successfully challenge the treatment.“ www.dubeconsulting.com/consultant-really-employee/
|
|
|
Post by rippy on Nov 20, 2020 16:02:46 GMT -5
I can't believe I'm posting this, but I generally agree. Just because it's done a lot, doesn't mean it's legal. Everything's legal until you get audited. Another popular "strategy" is putting all your family members' cars on the business books and writing off all the expenses and not reporting it on their W2 or 1099. Same deal....legal until you get caught. Oddly, the companies that I've seen do this type of crap tend to be concentrated in the real estate development/ construction industry. Lots of sleazy operators. What you’re talking about with car expenses is clearly illegal. It is done but it is clearly against tax code. Paying a consultant to perform a service (no matter the value) is not. What Trump did is not illegal. If it were then the NYT article would have been followed by a call from the IRS. And yes I work in RED and Construction so maybe that’s why I am used to seeing this kind of thing. No problem paying a consultant. The ethical/ legal issue is when the consultant is an employee. The money at stake for getting this wrong is basically Social Security and Medicare taxes. The hoops you would have to jump through to make this work are so ridiculous it would almost not be worth it. Having had lots of clients in this industry, I’m highly skeptical that Trump’s structure for this would pass anyone’s smell test, but I’m not sure there’s been enough details published for any of us to know for sure. What’s weird is why would he bother doing this? Yeah, company gets a tax write-off for the fees, which he would have gotten if it was salary expense. So, basically he shifts the cost of the payroll taxes from his company to his daughter. Nice guy!! Last I heard, this was being pursued by the State of NY. They may very well have some regulations on this kind of stuff that have nothing to do with taxes. I haven’t followed it close enough to know. Assuming you’re not a sleaze ball operator.
|
|
|
Post by wheelie on Nov 20, 2020 16:31:50 GMT -5
What you’re talking about with car expenses is clearly illegal. It is done but it is clearly against tax code. Paying a consultant to perform a service (no matter the value) is not. What Trump did is not illegal. If it were then the NYT article would have been followed by a call from the IRS. And yes I work in RED and Construction so maybe that’s why I am used to seeing this kind of thing. No problem paying a consultant. The ethical/ legal issue is when the consultant is an employee. The money at stake for getting this wrong is basically Social Security and Medicare taxes. The hoops you would have to jump through to make this work are so ridiculous it would almost not be worth it. Having had lots of clients in this industry, I’m highly skeptical that Trump’s structure for this would pass anyone’s smell test, but I’m not sure there’s been enough details published for any of us to know for sure. What’s weird is why would he bother doing this? Yeah, company gets a tax write-off for the fees, which he would have gotten if it was salary expense. So, basically he shifts the cost of the payroll taxes from his company to his daughter. Nice guy!! Last I heard, this was being pursued by the State of NY. They may very well have some regulations on this kind of stuff that have nothing to do with taxes. I haven’t followed it close enough to know. Assuming you’re not a sleaze ball operator. I am not a tax guy by any means but I am quiet sure that As long as the consulting entity declares the income then its all good, In my understanding of how this works. Andrew Cuomo is going after DJT? :shockedface:
|
|
|
Post by wheelie on Nov 20, 2020 16:33:08 GMT -5
What Trump did is not illegal. If it were then the NYT article would have been followed by a call from the IRS. How do you know he didn’t get a call from the IRS, or that they aren’t already investigating? According to Trump himself, he’s been under audit since at least 2016 and is constantly being hounded by the IRS, and so it stands to reason that this kind of thing is one of the reasons. And for the last time no one is saying that “paying a consultant to perform a service” is illegal, I’ve done that myself plenty of times and there nothing unusual about it and we agree on that. Paying an employee as an employee AND as a consultant to perform the same services is questionable and unethical at best, and illegal at worst if being done to avoid paying taxes (would be hard to prove without some sort of smoking gun). PS - Out of curiosity I googled “it is legal to pay an employee as a consultant” and the top hit was this article. You can read and decide for yourself, but even though they don’t specially address paying someone as both and employee AND a consultant at the same time, it certainly reads to me that the IRS would not look very kindly at this practice, especially since they seem to be pretty focused on classifying someone as one or the other... “Keep in mind that improper classification of employees as independent contractors could expose a company to substantial liability for the payment of back taxes if the IRS were to successfully challenge the treatment.“ www.dubeconsulting.com/consultant-really-employee/If anyone had anything in DJT they would have played their hand by now. But if you want to play that game sure.
|
|
|
Post by rippy on Nov 20, 2020 16:45:57 GMT -5
No problem paying a consultant. The ethical/ legal issue is when the consultant is an employee. The money at stake for getting this wrong is basically Social Security and Medicare taxes. The hoops you would have to jump through to make this work are so ridiculous it would almost not be worth it. Having had lots of clients in this industry, I’m highly skeptical that Trump’s structure for this would pass anyone’s smell test, but I’m not sure there’s been enough details published for any of us to know for sure. What’s weird is why would he bother doing this? Yeah, company gets a tax write-off for the fees, which he would have gotten if it was salary expense. So, basically he shifts the cost of the payroll taxes from his company to his daughter. Nice guy!! Last I heard, this was being pursued by the State of NY. They may very well have some regulations on this kind of stuff that have nothing to do with taxes. I haven’t followed it close enough to know. Assuming you’re not a sleaze ball operator. I am not a tax guy by any means but I am quiet sure that As long as the consulting entity declares the income then its all good, In my understanding of how this works. Andrew Cuomo is going after DJT? :shockedface: That’s true, but in this case he’s just shifting the tax burden, including social security and Medicare taxes to his daughter. His business would get a deduction regardless of whether you called is a consulting fee or salary. His business couldn’t afford the withholding taxes ? Really?? I wonder if Ivanka did it right on her end.
|
|
|
Post by bob on Nov 20, 2020 17:25:08 GMT -5
Saw this link in an article about election conspiracy theories. The company apparently felt they needed to address all the most crazy ones directly. Rudy and his team of conspiracy lawyers were saying Hugo Chavez manipulatied the election from his grave (he died 7 years ago). www.dominionvoting.com/What a pack of lies consistent with their "Values".
|
|
|
Post by ZenMaster on Nov 20, 2020 17:43:12 GMT -5
Saw this link in an article about election conspiracy theories. The company apparently felt they needed to address all the most crazy ones directly. Rudy and his team of conspiracy lawyers were saying Hugo Chavez manipulatied the election from his grave (he died 7 years ago). www.dominionvoting.com/What a pack of lies consistent with their "Values". Yep, Rudy and his gang of thieves have been lying about this for a couple weeks now with no end in sight, and it absolutely is consistent with their “values”. Glad we agree on this, bob! 😂
|
|
|
Post by CartMan on Nov 20, 2020 19:27:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by what is hip ? on Nov 20, 2020 19:58:42 GMT -5
What a pack of lies consistent with their "Values". Yep, Rudy and his gang of thieves have been lying about this for a couple weeks now with no end in sight, and it absolutely is consistent with their “values”. Glad we agree on this, bob! 😂 here ya go Bob, this a-hole comes on over and over and calls us trolls.
|
|